Thread: Does redirect affect pagerank?

Is there any definitive proof that redirect affects pagerank?

By redirect, I'm referring to, for instance....

Say you submit your site to a directory that keeps track of views/hits/ etc on your link. This is accomplished with redirects.

In other words, the link from the directory to your site isn't a direct link such as htt p://www.webtalkforums.com

but a redirected link, like so:
htt p://ww w.directory.com/links/showlink.php?!=8&linkurl=ht tp://ww w.webtalkforums.com/

So in a round about way, I'm trying to ask...

1. what, if any, are the ramifications, PR-wise, of redirected urls?
2. Does this directory redirect linking rob a site of it's PR?
3. If it does, why does it?
4. Finally... is it more important, in YOUR opinion, for the directory to be able to track the views/hits? Or should directory disable this feature to assure a direct link to the site that would possibly (but not definitively) leave way for PR.

Opinions?

Originally Posted by Ohiosweetheart

Is there any definitive proof that redirect affects pagerank?

By redirect, I'm referring to, for instance....

Say you submit your site to a directory that keeps track of views/hits/ etc on your link. This is accomplished with redirects.

In other words, the link from the directory to your site isn't a direct link such as htt p://www.webtalkforums.com

but a redirected link, like so:
htt p://ww w.directory.com/links/showlink.php?!=8&linkurl=ht tp://ww w.webtalkforums.com/

So in a round about way, I'm trying to ask...

1. what, if any, are the ramifications, PR-wise, of redirected urls?
2. Does this directory redirect linking rob a site of it's PR?
3. If it does, why does it?
4. Finally... is it more important, in YOUR opinion, for the directory to be able to track the views/hits? Or should directory disable this feature to assure a direct link to the site that would possibly (but not definitively) leave way for PR.

Opinions?

Very good questions! Here are my thoughts.

1. Firstly, PR is passed through links. A redirect of such will pass NOT PR to the intended destination site but to the relay page, which many times is not a live pages. So in effect you are passing PR to the goto page ie: www.url.com/goto?id=1234.

2. Yes, from my experience it will not pass any PR to the destination site. Unless you want to create a live page, wait for PR to pass to that page, and then 301 that page to the destination site. ie: 301 www.url.com/1234 to the destination site.

3. Because Google looks at your relay page as the destination of the link and will pass the PR to the relay page.

4.This is a very tricky question and to answer it correctly you have to sit on one or the other side of the fence. Are you tracking for yourself (and website visitors) or are you tracking for the user of the destination URL? From a coding prospective, I think you may be able to code a Javascript that tracks which links are clicked (not a javascript on the link itself but on onpage javascript) and solve the problem without interfering with the PR propagation. Many of the directories today use the tracking method you described or have 2 types of links - one directly to the site (seo friendly & passes PR) and one to the detail page (where there may be another direct SEO friendly link). They tend to track the hits on the detail page and not direct outgoing link clicks. Depending on configuration they may actually pass PR to the detail page as well. Owner of the destination URL should be looking at their logs to see how much traffic a particular directory is generating for them and not rely on the directory owner to keep track of that for them.

hope this helps

I concur. I have had this converstaion in the past in regard to a vB hack or two that use redirects for a directory. For a listing, it's fine. For linking purposes, it's useless.

Worse, I have seen so called linking directories use meta redirects.

Ok then, to carry this further...

I just installed a new directory on my Top vBulletin site. So this is personal

It really doesn't matter much to me whether I can track hits/views or not. I know that to some, it gives them a nice warm fuzzy feeling to see who's visiting their links on the directory.
I'd rather turn off he redirect and make it a direct link to their site, thus affording them whatever little itty bit of PR they might get from it.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The direct links that will pass PR are certainly more coveted then redirects. So if you can do that, you would be more likely to be able to sell featured links perhaps.

thanks

Originally Posted by noppid

The direct links that will pass PR are certainly more coveted then redirects. So if you can do that, you would be more likely to be able to sell featured links perhaps.

Yes - i agree!

I just skimmed this thread, but how about similiar to how some scripts including PHPLDlink directory passes the id?

Those are SEO friendly PR passing links that also track the hits out.

Originally Posted by grim

I just skimmed this thread, but how about similiar to how some scripts including PHPLDlink directory passes the id?

Those are SEO friendly PR passing links that also track the hits out.

I'm not familiar with phpLD so I just took a look at the output it produces. The href anchor is a direct link but, like you said, it also has an ID associated with it.

Now you've really got me curious on what method they're using.

okay here is what i know ... lets take a look at a couple scenarios and for the sake of discussion lets say the we are using a directory.com as are originating url and we are linking to www.abc.com...

point 1. link defined as http://www.abc.com which goes to www.abc.com
comment 1: This is the ideal solution for passing PR

point 2: link defined as http://www.abc.com?refid=directory.com
comment 2: As far as I know, this passes PR to the destination site but not as a top level url but dilutes to the http://www.abc.com?refid=directory.com (i may be wrong). Its like having PR passed to www.abc.com compared to abc.com compared to www.abc.com/index.html - all of these pass PR differently - YES? This is why you should 301 redirect all similar and responisve URLs to one URL. Say www.abc.com as the base and all other responding URLs such as abc.com and www.abc.com/index.html and abc.com/index.html should 301 to www.abc.com so that all PR is passed to one location.

point 3: link defined as http://www.directory.com/?gotoid=www.abc.com
comment3: PR is not passed on in anyway to www.abc.com, PR is passed to the goto/relay page.

Does this help KW802? I'm not quite sure I understand what the issue you guys are discussing is - it should be apparent from out discussions.

PS. www.abc.com should love me for putting so many links to them!:wub_anim:

I started the discussion, and your point #3, LaCabra, is exactly what I was asking about.
And Kevin is trying to find a way around that for me/us.

Thanks for making it clearer than I ever could have

hehehe Peggy np ... as far as I know you can not pass PR that way unless you.

1. Create a specific/detail/relay page for that ie: www.directory.com/www-abc-com let it sit there for a while so that it can inherit the PR and then 301 that page to the actual destination. NOT very practical.

2. Alter the code so that any link instance of http://www.directory.com/?gotoid=www.abc.com is replaced with http://www.abc.com

What application are you guys having problems/issues/dilemmas with?

Originally Posted by LaCabra

PS. www.abc.com should love me for putting so many links to them!:wub_anim:

You should see if they have an affiliate program!

Originally Posted by LaCabra

What application are you guys having problems/issues/dilemmas with?

In both our (Peggy & myself) case it'd be vBadvanced Links, a links directory that integrates into vBulletin. Plus I have a bunch of custom hacks that I've done over the years that, to be frank, really didn't put much thought into how PR would be treated to the linked URL so as I work on them going forward I'll be changing my thinking process a bit.

Originally Posted by Ohiosweetheart

And Kevin is trying to find a way around that for me/us.

I believe I have a solution. I just tried it tonight and it looks like a simple template edit will take care of the issue for Google, MSN, and Yahoo. It could be done for all spiders but would be a bit more server intensive. Catch me on IM in the morning.... it's late and I need sleep tonight (plus my crazy dog is acting up).

Originally Posted by KW802

You should see if they have an affiliate program!

In both our (Peggy & myself) case it'd be vBadvanced Links, a links directory that integrates into vBulletin. Plus I have a bunch of custom hacks that I've done over the years that, to be frank, really didn't put much thought into how PR would be treated to the linked URL so as I work on them going forward I'll be changing my thinking process a bit.

I believe I have a solution. I just tried it tonight and it looks like a simple template edit will take care of the issue for Google, MSN, and Yahoo. It could be done for all spiders but would be a bit more server intensive. Catch me on IM in the morning.... it's late and I need sleep tonight (plus my crazy dog is acting up).

Thanks for the feedback Kev ... can you show me a sample of your vbadvanced links directory - i'm kinda curious!!!

LaCabra, are you wanting to see code, or the directory itself?
You can see it on my site at http://www.top-vb.com/links/

And Kevin's site at http://www.vbulletinusers.com/links/

Thread cleaned. If you have issues with other members, take it to PM with that person, let's continue this discussion civilly.

It is a topic of interest to many folks, which is why I reopened it.

Originally Posted by Ohiosweetheart

LaCabra, are you wanting to see code, or the directory itself?
You can see it on my site at http://www.top-vb.com/links/

And Kevin's site at http://www.vbulletinusers.com/links/

Yes thank you - i wanted to see a demo! Can you integrate a payment module in it?

Originally Posted by Kalina

Thread cleaned. If you have issues with other members, take it to PM with that person, let's continue this discussion civilly.

It is a topic of interest to many folks, which is why I reopened it.

Would you mind restoring that big reply I gave with the template edits for Peggy? The edits in that reply will take care of the problem for her at least. Feel free to edit it as necessary (I would just hate to retype the whole thing in again ).

Thanks

Originally Posted by LaCabra

Yes thank you - i wanted to see a demo! Can you integrate a payment module in it?

Not directly. The method around it is that since it does integrate directly with vBulletin then a vBulletin administrator could create a new vB usergroup (eg: "Donating Members") that a user could subscribe to with PayPal or other method configured in vB and then you could create categories in vBa Links that only Donating Members could have access to. You could take it even further that everybody might have access to post in Category A that has "nofollow" applied to it but only Donating Members can post in Category B that doesn't have "nofollow" applied to it. (The "nofollow" being applied to the category is an option at the category level in the ACP).

Originally Posted by KW802

Would you mind restoring that big reply I gave with the template edits for Peggy? The edits in that reply will take care of the problem for her at least. Feel free to edit it as necessary (I would just hate to retype the whole thing in again ).

Thanks

I had nowhere to stick it in. I can paste it to you in pm and you can repost it, if you wish.

Originally Posted by Kalina

I had nowhere to stick it in. I can paste it to you in pm and you can repost it, if you wish.

Thanks. I typed that up on-the-fly (I know, I know, I should've saved a local copy somewhere).

EDIT: Aaaarrgghh! I just realized I'm supposed to use the Thanks button for these kinds of posts here.

[ Reposted for anybody who might be using vBa Links ]

Peggy,

When we talk I'll go into more detail (because I don't want to turn this thread into a vBa Links support thread) but for a quick solution try this...

Modify your "adv_links_linkbit" and "adv_links_showlink" templates...

- In adv_links_showlink look for...

Code:

<td><a href="showlink.php?$session[sessionurl]l=$link[linkid]&amp;linkurl=$link[linkurl]" target="_blank"<if condition="$show['nofollow']"> rel="nofollow"</if>>$link[linkurl_display]</a></td>

... and replace it with:

Code:

<td><a href="<if condition="$show['search_engine']">$link[linkurl]<else />showlink.php?$session[sessionurl]l=$link[linkid]&amp;linkurl=$link[linkurl]</if>" target="_blank"<if condition="$show['nofollow']"> rel="nofollow"</if>>$link[linkurl_display]</a></td>

- In adv_links_linkbit look for...

Code:

<td align="$stylevar[left]" class="vbmenu_option falseclass"><a href="showlink.php?$session[sessionurl]l=$link[linkid]" target="_blank"<if condition="$show['nofollow']"> rel="nofollow"</if>>$vbphrase[view_site]</a></td>

... and replace it with:

Code:

<td align="$stylevar[left]" class="vbmenu_option falseclass"><a href="<if condition="$show['search_engine']">$link[linkurl]<else />showlink.php?$session[sessionurl]l=$link[linkid]</if>" target="_blank"<if condition="$show['nofollow']"> rel="nofollow"</if>>$vbphrase[view_site]</a></td>

The summary of what that change will do is that Google, Yahoo, and MSN will see the direct link and everybody else (including all other spiders) will see the usual redirect method.

If you really want all spiders to be affected then change $show['search_engine'] to $show['spider'] instead. Be warned that will impact performance on your site since it will have to parse the spiders.xml file everytime on the page load so it's not recommended (and, besides, the 'big 3' are Google, Yahoo, and MSN anyway. It'd be nice if Alexa was also included but that's another conversation.).

If you're worried about "Wait, will Google not like this since their bot will see something different then a human?" then change $show['search_engine'] to !$bbuserinfo['userid'] (note the exclamation point in front) and that way all non-registered guests (including humans) will see the direct method while registered visitors will see the redirect method. That actually wouldn't be so bad since that way the 'views' count would only be counted for people who are logged in to vBulletin.

When making your changes be careful since "showlink.php" is used in several different templates and several times in each of the templates mentioned above.


For those curious about vBa Links....

The method that vBa Links is using to launch the remote URL is that it passes a value to "showlink.php" first (eg: showlink.php?l={linkID}) which in turn increments the DB for the 'views' count and then it uses the vBulletin function 'print_standard_redirect' to actually redirect to the passed in URL.

Coding wise it's nice & neat trimmed code but as this conversation shows it also then doesn't allow PR from being passed to the remote site, instead "showlink.php" would be the receiver.

Thank you Kevin. I'll see to this when I return from Florida.