Thread: Student Rejected by Medical School

http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...288659,00.html

This story is kicking up quite a stink in the UK at the moment. Here's the general gist:

- Bradford lad Majid Ahmed applied to study medicine.
- The universities were impressed by his academic prowess and work experience.
- He was offered a place by Imperial College, London.
- As a result of a criminal record check they discovered he had a previous conviction for burglary. He hadn't previously declared this conviction to them because he considered it irrelevant.
- They withdrew their offer of a place.

He is now trawling the TV news channels looking for sympathy.

Discuss.

CountryBoy added 144 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Okay, I was going to hold off until others had put their two-penneth in. However, as no-one else is talking:

In my opinion Imperial College is absolutely 100% CORRECT.

It seems that the most people in the UK are outraged that Imperial could commit such a heinous crime as depriving Ahmed, a humble reformed criminal, of achieving his life's ambition of a career in medicine. He's been punished by the courts, so why punish him a second time by shattering his university dreams?

In typical kneejerk reaction to Ahmed's TV and newspaper sob stories most people have completely missed the fact that the reason Imperial pulled the plug after making him an offer was because he hadn't volunteered the truth about his criminal past beforehand. This is an important point because the UK university application form asks people to declare if they have any convictions.

So the reason they are penalising him is not only because he is a convicted burglar but because he witheld that information from his application.

Candid disclosure from the outset may well have avoided all this.

Originally Posted by CountryBoy

Candid disclosure from the outset may well have avoided all this.

Perhaps, it however is just as likely if not more so that the application would have been tossed to the side as soon as someone noticed the criminal misdeed.

Hi,

The old saying need to apply here "The past is dead. The future is not yet born. Now is the only time"

My thought is that a person need Not be Candid on everything. I think most people have a few skeletons in their closet.

Here is one for you. A New friend of mine just got let go from work. After working for the company for 8 weeks. Her boss even said she did a good job.
Why you ask. OK I'll tell you. When she was 18 in High School She was arrested for doing pot. Now at 27 it haunts her. She did not place the drug charge on her application. You would think they could have found that out before hiring her. For the company has a no drug policy.

Not Fare to judge a person on what they were. Judge them on what they are now.

:flower:
Sami

In all fairness Sami it's slightly different.

Medical practitioners are expected to display the highest levels of honesty and integrity by virtue of the extremely trusted position their career places them in.

The two situations aren't comparable because working in a shop requires less trust than making intimate examinations or working with controlled drugs for example.

Honestly, I think they had the right to take it away from him. He should have come clean in the first place, they would have understood.

They withdrew their offer because he didn't tell them. It wouldn't have made much of a difference if he did, I know a few people in university that have criminal offences like that, they put it down and all that happened was they had to go to an interview at the uni before getting accepted.

Originally Posted by CountryBoy

In all fairness Sami it's slightly different.

Medical practitioners are expected to display the highest levels of honesty and integrity by virtue of the extremely trusted position their career places them in.

The two situations aren't comparable because working in a shop requires less trust than making intimate examinations or working with controlled drugs for example.

Hi

I understand what your saying, but is that not what the prison and laws are for. Once a person pay his/her debt it should be over and done.

:flower:
Sami

Originally Posted by Sami4u

Hi

I understand what your saying, but is that not what the prison and laws are for. Once a person pay his/her debt it should be over and done.

:flower:
Sami

In usual circumstances you're right.

We have something called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 here in Britain. It means that most convictions over the age of 10 years (if memory serves) are considered 'spent' and don't have to be declared on job application forms etc.

Medicine/teaching/childcare/social work and allied jobs are exempt from that rule.

Originally Posted by Sami4u

Hi

I understand what your saying, but is that not what the prison and laws are for. Once a person pay his/her debt it should be over and done.

I don't agree with that at all.

By that logic, a sex offender should be released from jail once they serve there sentence and not have to register, not have to notify anybody, just go back into society?

What about murderers? Drug dealers?

I'm gobsmacked to learn now that the Higher Education Minister, Bill Rammell, has such a superficial grasp of the facts that he has declared his support for Ahmed. He obviously hasn't read this thread.

Not that it's Rammell's place to be dictating admissions policy to Imperial - he's a lacklustre Minister from a rapidly dying Government that would say black was white to grasp public support at the moment.

Originally Posted by CountryBoy

It means that most convictions over the age of 10 years (if memory serves) are considered 'spent' and don't have to be declared on job application forms etc.

Medicine/teaching/childcare/social work and allied jobs are exempt from that rule.

Obviously Ahmed isn't totally rehabilitated if he considered it irrelevent. He should have known that it would resurface somewhere so should just have been straight and turned it into a positive.

Is Apprentice winner Lee McQueen's little lie about attending an education establishment better/worse/same? Or is it different as Lee is 'a bit of a geezer'.

Originally Posted by HLJames

I don't agree with that at all.

By that logic, a sex offender should be released from jail once they serve there sentence and not have to register, not have to notify anybody, just go back into society?

What about murderers? Drug dealers?

Hi,

NO THEY SHOULD NOT.

Sex offender should not have to register. Nor notify anybody.

Here me out. They should not be released quickly, But when a person debt is paid it should be over. Make more prisons, have tougher laws. Keep them longer but when it is over it is over.

I also do not believe in parole for good behavior, if you are sentenced for 20 years serve 20 years. Not 7 years and put on parole saying if you do anything wrong you go back.

Three strikes is BullSh!t

If a person don't like the law Get the law changed. If you don't like the sentence by the judge VOTE him/her out of office next time.

On second thought let's just brand a RED S on their forehead. Now with trumpets sounding and banners waving we move backwards to the time were bigots ruled the country.

:flower:
Sami

Dishonesty is dishonesty - and there's no place for it in medicine.

Apparently he's appealing his rejection at Manchester too. The more I read about him the more I dislike his ways - there is a time just to call it a day and accept defeat graciously. He can always apply again next year, although I doubt anyone will touch him with a barge pole knowing what a barrack room lawyer he is. They'd be making a rod for their own back.

It's a fact that there are thousands of students who are equally or better qualified than him who have had heartbreaking rejection from medicine and accepted it on the chin.

This guy's out for a free lunch.

Medical practitioners are not born as practitioners, and you cannot expect everyone to be humble, honest, committed, etc.
We have come across many doctors who have misused their professional qualification indulging in molestation, rape, human organs trade, etc.


It would had been better if Majid Ahmed voluntarily declared the conviction to the univ., in this case his dishonesty becomes his weak point.
And if he had already served the punishment, then i think the univ. authorities should had given him a chance.

Originally Posted by Sami4u

Hi,

NO THEY SHOULD NOT.

Sex offender should not have to register. Nor notify anybody.

Here me out. They should not be released quickly, But when a person debt is paid it should be over. Make more prisons, have tougher laws. Keep them longer but when it is over it is over.

I also do not believe in parole for good behavior, if you are sentenced for 20 years serve 20 years. Not 7 years and put on parole saying if you do anything wrong you go back.

Three strikes is BullSh!t


If a person don't like the law Get the law changed. If you don't like the sentence by the judge VOTE him/her out of office next time.

On second thought let's just brand a RED S on their forehead. Now with trumpets sounding and banners waving we move backwards to the time were bigots ruled the country.

:flower:
Sami

I'm just going to back out of this one because I don't see how someone could think like that, especially against sex offenders...who's prey is more often then not young children.

I think a lot of people still have the romantic notion that doctors are selfless, honest, and do not care much about making money. In fact, nothing can be further from the truth. In fact, candidates like Ahmed are much more likely to be committed and wants to give something back to society.

The medical profession in the UK used to have one of the highest professional and ethical standards worldwide but this has gone down the drain in the past decade. For example, the GPs there now milks the NHS dry.

BBC NEWS | Health | Average GP pay rises to £106,000

In fact, theie latest median income exceeds $120,000 (US$240,000). They derive a lot of their income by doing unneccessary things to the patients. Similarly in the US, doctors are the highest earners with incomes over $200,000.

The situation is similar in Hong Hong, where top specialists in private practice can earn over $1M per year. In fact, it is almost unknown and unthinkable for a top specialist not to be a multi-millionaire. For example, one kidney specialist had owned more than 80 Porsches, and another dermatologist had built up one of the greatest Chinese antique collections in the world.

But the fact iremains that many doctors in private practice are involved in a various types of scams, like recommending uncessary surgery, consultations, or referals. Getting kickbacks from private hospitals, drug firms, and for fake prescriptions they issue to pharmacies. The latter because people can often walk into a pharmacy and buy any drug there. The pharmacy then need to cover themselves with a fake prescription.

Basically, I think screening applicants' character is a complete non-starter. If anything, Ahmed would probably have turned out to be a better doctor if he had been accepted.