Thread: US Taxpayers Mad as Hell at 700 Billion Bail Out Plan!

Mad as hell - taxpayers lash out - Sep. 21, 2008

I am quite disturbed about this although I am not in the US. Our currency is tied to the US dollar and so we are in the same boat. It seems that profits of those greedy bankers are privatized whereas the huge losses they caused are nationalized.

We have seen all before within the past year. Sudden interest rate cuts, rescue or Bear Stearns, Printing loads of money to lend to the banks. Rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and rescue of AIG. Just when will all this end?

My worry is that the US is fast entering a Japan situation where there will be years if not decades of economic woe

You might feel differently if the Government was bailing out a bank that had your money in it... Whilst this is frustrating I feel it is nessasary sometimes.

The US is basically broke, compared to when Bush took over the financial outlook of the US is simply dismal at best.

And it will probably get a lot worse before it gets better. Just like the UK which is feeling the pinch as a result of the Situations in the US

Customers in US banks are guarranteed up to a total of $100,000 anyway, and nobody in the right mind would keep more than that in a wobbly bank. The bailout is different, it applies to all banks whether they are healthy or not.

In Japan, they had a series of bailouts, economic stimulus packages, negative interest rates and their economy is still moribund after nearly 20 years. Although the problem is UK was started in the US, their housing bubble is much worse than the US that it would implode on its own anyway.

Because of this proposed bailout, oil prices have jumped $10 already. The bail out package may cause the US 1% growth per year for several years. This would make it very similar to the Japanese situation.

Sometimes, you may need to have a recession to flush out all the bad elements and put your economy on a sound footing again, however painful it is. This is what happened in a lot of countries during the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997-8

Originally Posted by zxpro168

Customers in US banks are guarranteed up to a total of $100,000 anyway, and nobody in the right mind would keep more than that in a wobbly bank. The bailout is different, it applies to all banks whether they are healthy or not.

In Japan, they had a series of bailouts, economic stimulus packages, negative interest rates and their economy is still moribund after nearly 20 years. Although the problem is UK was started in the US, their housing bubble is much worse than the US that it would implode on its own anyway.

Because of this proposed bailout, oil prices have jumped $10 already. The bail out package may cause the US 1% growth per year for several years. This would make it very similar to the Japanese situation.

Sometimes, you may need to have a recession to flush out all the bad elements and put your economy on a sound footing again, however painful it is. This is what happened in a lot of countries during the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997-8

Its nice that you get $100,000 safeguard. Here in the UK we get a maximum 30,000GPB. I'm just watching this program that is on in the UK about the collapse of the economy and financial crisis. There are people on their in tears that have lost their job at lehman brothers and are at risk of losing their homes, what these people forget is that people lose their jobs everyday - why should we feel any different towards them just because they were high earners in the first place.

I'm pretty pissed about it. because these assholes stuffed their pockets, wrote loans they knew people couldn't pay and just got raped in the wallets like they should.

But now instead of them just eating it, once again the middle class and poor folk are stuck to pay.

All the huge bonuses that have been flying around in recent years in the financial/banking industry have come back to haunt them well maybe haunt others instead of them i think greed has played a huge part in all the sub prime fiasco also.

Originally Posted by Menthol

All the huge bonuses that have been flying around in recent years in the financial/banking industry have come back to haunt them well maybe haunt others instead of them i think greed has played a huge part in all the sub prime fiasco also.

Too True, Greed, Greed and More Greed, With a little bit of Stupidity and Bad Decisions thrown in for good measure.

This whole bailout is absolutely infuriating! This will not do anything to help taxpayers in any way shape or form. Don't be fooled to think that this is somehow helping us?! This type of trickle down economics will never reach those in true need; those out there that were scammed into these high risk loans. While the government helps pay off bad business plans and decisions, those companies will continue to foreclose on homes of those they scammed, hound those that have credit card debts etc.

This is a total sham of a plan. Wall Street was never meant to be run by the federal government and that is what is happening. Those that are about to fall will, no matter what type of injection the government makes. Sad but true. It will only do more damage then good if our politicians actually let this go through!

Originally Posted by zxpro168

My worry is that the US is fast entering a Japan situation where there will be years if not decades of economic woe

Don't worry about the US entering a 'Japan situation' of deflation.

The US is broke whereas Japanese household have an estimated $5 trillion USD in savings.

The US has a national debt of $10+ trillion and with the current $700 billion bailout, the US will be -$2 trillion for USD.

I would be more worried about stagflation or a dollar collapse.

I notice that the USD$ is becoming weaker by the day again

Oil prices surge after bailout gets $700B price tag - Sep. 22, 2008

And the oil prices have made a huge surge. If anything, this is proof that such hastily arranged plans could have devastating consequences on everybody around the world.

^Exactly! But will our idiot politicians realize this? Doubtful. Grrrr So frustrating. Paulson's continued "Urgency to get this through" should only be seen as a warning sign. No matter what, there is NOT that urgency. The chips will fall where they fall so to say at this point or should I say Banks will fall where they fall :P

Originally Posted by GRIM

The US is basically broke, compared to when Bush took over the financial outlook of the US is simply dismal at best.

Didn't he bankrupt a couple of companies before getting his hands on the whole country?

Originally Posted by Zap

Didn't he bankrupt a couple of companies before getting his hands on the whole country?

Every company he ever owned I believe. :twisted:

Originally Posted by GRIM

Every company he ever owned I believe. :twisted:

Well... That can't be good for business.

Seems like he's a good fit for the current administration then

not gonna go into some huge long rant about why i think what i think...because it's simple...

I hope this gets passed (though I hope they change it around a bit so it's less of a blank check...it needs to be closely monitored)...but at the moment...i'd much rather have a bit of hyperinflation...than another great depression...

Originally Posted by Stax

not gonna go into some huge long rant about why i think what i think...because it's simple...

I hope this gets passed (though I hope they change it around a bit so it's less of a blank check...it needs to be closely monitored)...but at the moment...i'd much rather have a bit of hyperinflation...than another great depression...

It isn't that bad yet. The Wall Street fatcats haven't started jumping off buildings.

I don't see the need for taxpayers to bailout banks in this manner. Especially with the level of fraud involved.

Better to let the failed banks go bankrupt and the FDIC take over the assets.

The $700 Billion can be better spent by loaning it to Warren Buffet to start a new bank.

Originally Posted by GRIM

The US is basically broke, compared to when Bush took over the financial outlook of the US is simply dismal at best.

Bush admin failed to fix it, but the root problem goes back a little further than that. I wont repeat the rather lengthy posts I made at DP, but even without fraud (which was pretty prevalent)... even if the underwriting guidelines were followed to the letter a lot of the programs that allowed people to get loans in excess of the asking price of the house (it used to be a jailable offense called "up for down"... then they codified it and gace it a prettier name), interest only loans, etc.... those things were gonna go south in time. Now is the time.

Hosts of sub-prime programs were designed to open the housing market to those that really had no way to repay the loans and were screwed if prices didnt rise precipitously. This has been building for over a decade. It's a clusterf*uck. My wife was one of the Countrywide underwriters that constantly got berated for being "non-business friendly" and finally left the industry rather than be pressured to do stuff that she could go to jail for.

I hope instead of drawing their promised $15 - 20 mil golden parachutes the Fannie and Freddie execs are drawn and quartered for putting us all in nationalized debt up to 3 ft above our eyeballs. I dont know what the right thing is to do here, but its gonna get real ugly if we bail them or real ugly if we dont. Grrr.

Originally Posted by robjones

Bush admin failed to fix it, but the root problem goes back a little further than that. I wont repeat the rather lengthy posts I made at DP, but even without fraud (which was pretty prevalent)... even if the underwriting guidelines were followed to the letter a lot of the programs that allowed people to get loans in excess of the asking price of the house (it used to be a jailable offense called "up for down"... then they codified it and gace it a prettier name), interest only loans, etc.... those things were gonna go south in time. Now is the time.

Hosts of sub-prime programs were designed to open the housing market to those that really had no way to repay the loans and were screwed if prices didnt rise precipitously. This has been building for over a decade. It's a clusterf*uck. My wife was one of the Countrywide underwriters that constantly got berated for being "non-business friendly" and finally left the industry rather than be pressured to do stuff that she could go to jail for.

I hope instead of drawing their promised $15 - 20 mil golden parachutes the Fannie and Freddie execs are drawn and quartered for putting us all in nationalized debt up to 3 ft above our eyeballs. I dont know what the right thing is to do here, but its gonna get real ugly if we bail them or real ugly if we dont. Grrr.

A lot of people forget that the housing bubble started in 1998.

Rather than Americans saving, ppl have been relying on asset valuation to fund their lifestyles and retirement. 20% per year asset appreciation can't go on forever.

Originally Posted by robjones

Bush admin failed to fix it, but the root problem goes back a little further than that. I wont repeat the rather lengthy posts I made at DP, but even without fraud (which was pretty prevalent)... even if the underwriting guidelines were followed to the letter a lot of the programs that allowed people to get loans in excess of the asking price of the house (it used to be a jailable offense called "up for down"... then they codified it and gace it a prettier name), interest only loans, etc.... those things were gonna go south in time. Now is the time.

Hosts of sub-prime programs were designed to open the housing market to those that really had no way to repay the loans and were screwed if prices didnt rise precipitously. This has been building for over a decade. It's a clusterf*uck. My wife was one of the Countrywide underwriters that constantly got berated for being "non-business friendly" and finally left the industry rather than be pressured to do stuff that she could go to jail for.

I hope instead of drawing their promised $15 - 20 mil golden parachutes the Fannie and Freddie execs are drawn and quartered for putting us all in nationalized debt up to 3 ft above our eyeballs. I dont know what the right thing is to do here, but its gonna get real ugly if we bail them or real ugly if we dont. Grrr.

I don't blame all on Bush, there however is much more to the financial outlook of the US than even just the housing market.

A certain war that is bankrupting us comes to mind

BTW Bush also campaigned on 'record home ownership' even the White House's page lists it as an accomplishment, as well as getting banks to give loans they normally would not.

Don't look at me. I have things I think he did right and things I know he did wrong, but I havent nominated him for sainthood or anything. Basically ecomomically there's little difference between a lot of his policies and that of many Democratic administrations... he gets low marks there. Not under the impression things would be better if a *real* democrat had taken office instead, but at this time it's a moot point anyway.

Kinda hate to be the next guy to take office... sorta like boarding the Titanic just before it hits the ice. Unless they have a magic wand I predict a single term for whoever wins. Doesnt matter who caused it, the incumbent goes down with the economy.

What is really scary is:

A good friend of mine who is really into politics, told me once that, you never see the real effects of a presidency until after is over, therefore, I would have to pin most of this on previous white house tenants, and be very afraid for what we will see after Dubya is out of there!!!

Originally Posted by LeenkzMike

What is really scary is:

A good friend of mine who is really into politics, told me once that, you never see the real effects of a presidency until after is over, therefore, I would have to pin most of this on previous white house tenants, and be very afraid for what we will see after Dubya is out of there!!!

Well it depends, some items you will see pretty quick, especially when a president is in office for 8 years. If he/she gets some stuff passed in the first year or two you definitely will see some of it coming into play while they are in office.

Much of what GWB has done though is going to hit us real hard, to the point of destroying our country unless shit turns around IMHO. The debt we now carry is unreal, plus he keeps adding to it!

I could not stand Clinton, but hell I'd kiss Clinton if it would allow him to take over and get GWB out of office.

On damn near every front I prefer Clinton over Bush, definitely when it comes to the economy.

LOL. I was just thinking that the last time we had a surplus prior to Clinton was the Andrew Jackson administration... and the banking system collapsed in the succeeding Van Buren term. Doesnt prove diddly mind you, just one of those coincidences i figure some talking head will pick up on eventually.

[I just had better history teachers than they did.]

Originally Posted by GRIM

I don't blame all on Bush, there however is much more to the financial outlook of the US than even just the housing market.

A certain war that is bankrupting us comes to mind

BTW Bush also campaigned on 'record home ownership' even the White House's page lists it as an accomplishment, as well as getting banks to give loans they normally would not.

The Iraq war cost $550 Billion since 2003.

With the $700 billion bailout, the US has spent $1.5 trillion this year alone bailing out the financial industry.

At least the end is in sight in Iraq.

Originally Posted by Bogart

At least the end is in sight....

Why do I always feel like the last sled dog on the team when I hear that?

There are costs in the Iraq war above and beyond supplementals BTW....

[VBTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds[/VBTUBE]

Finally someone dares to speak out. Forget Clinton, forget Palin, here could be first woman president of the United States!

Originally Posted by zxpro168

[VBTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds[/VBTUBE]

Finally someone dares to speak out. Forget Clinton, forget Palin, here could be first woman president of the United States!

Shame you'll never see any of that brought up on major news outlets.

^The media is no longer in favor of spreading truth :P

There has just been a run on my bank today!

BBC NEWS | Business | Withdrawals hit Bank of East Asia

I thought something was funny when I saw a large queue of people at my mall during lunchtime. I didn't know what happened till I got back. So things are getting pretty serious indeed...

Doesn't look like there is going to be a deal on the $700 billion bailout.

If there is no deal by Saturday, there's no way one will pass. Opposition to the bill is mounting.

Originally Posted by GRIM

I don't blame all on Bush, there however is much more to the financial outlook of the US than even just the housing market.

A certain war that is bankrupting us comes to mind

BTW Bush also campaigned on 'record home ownership' even the White House's page lists it as an accomplishment, as well as getting banks to give loans they normally would not.

The community reinvestment act passed by Jimmy Carter and expanded by Bill Clinton is a big part of the current financial crisis.

Originally Posted by Bogart

The community reinvestment act passed by Jimmy Carter and expanded by Bill Clinton is a big part of the current financial crisis.

There is more to it than just that.

I have a lot of thoughts about the current financial crisis.
And how to work our way out of it.

But I am opposed to the US government bailing out any and all companies, or industries.

Look at the 25 billion dollars they are giving to the auto industry now, with maybe another 25 billion later.

One thing the gripes me is that the so called leaders of all these banks and companies are sitting pretty as far as income received and income yet to receive.

And yes, the war is not helping our economy at all!

Maybe later today, I should do a rant and rave about this entire fiasco on my blog.

Saw this on another forum.

Very interesting read...

The Big Picture | How SEC Regulatory Exemptions Helped Lead to Collapse

As more and more of this stuff is dug up and exposed, it makes the $700 Billion bailout look like a big waste of taxpayer money.

Look at WAMU. Washington Mutual, the largest bank ever to fail.
But JPMorgan Chase and Co. bought the bank's banking assets.

The government at best should take all those banks and investment firms and tell them to merge, and buy each other out.
Together, they can absorb the billions of dollars in bad paper and write them off over time without any bailout.

Originally Posted by iowadawg

As more and more of this stuff is dug up and exposed, it makes the $700 Billion bailout look like a big waste of taxpayer money.

Look at WAMU. Washington Mutual, the largest bank ever to fail.
But JPMorgan Chase and Co. bought the bank's banking assets.

The government at best should take all those banks and investment firms and tell them to merge, and buy each other out.
Together, they can absorb the billions of dollars in bad paper and write them off over time without any bailout.

Better yet let the bankrupty courts sell the assests and pay people off.