Thread: Decision on $700 Billion Dollar Bailout

Well the decision is in. The bailout plan has been rejected. So what is next? No one seems to know.

Of course the stock market didn't react to the news very well. Apparently, many investors were planning on the plan to be passed. When it didn't happen, the stock market fell 778 points lower.

My personal opinion is that this was not good news for our economy, but what do I know, I am only a programmer.

What do you think? What do you think the lawmakers next move should be?

What's Next?

A depression, :s

Why the hell wouldnt they let it thru?? Your all going to the Depression again. Its been discussed here a lot on the news and its not looking good for America.

Nope....not good at ALL.

Actually it is the market correcting itself.
A lot of good companies got punished today.
Even the mighty google dropped below $400 for the first time since 2006.

Again, many of those financial institutions stuck a lot of their profits into the stock market.

And read again what I said about fund and pension managers selling off their financial company and bank holdings.

The problem that with or without government help that has to work itself out is the whole credit market.
Banks won't lend to other banks.
Banks won't lend to companies, etc etc.
Already, because credit is drying up, it is getting harder and harder for people to buy cars, furniture, etc on credit.

Originally Posted by Rhiannon

Why the hell wouldnt they let it thru?? Your all going to the Depression again. Its been discussed here a lot on the news and its not looking good for America.

We don't have the $$$ for it in the first place. It would be the US taking even more credit out. The US is more in debt than the companies themselves it hoped to bail out.

I think the politicians and Wall St. are so far out of touch with reality, they were totally expecting the bill to pass.
Hopefully, now that they understand it's not a slam dunk, the next plan they come up with will not need an accompanying tube of K-Y to go with it.

If it ever comes to a depression, it will not be just the USA!
So laugh it up, your country will feel the pinch bad.

Why wouldnt they let it go thru?

For starters congressmen have been flooded with people saying they oppose it. The vast majority of the voters oppose the measure. Are they correct to do so? Hard to say... the weird thing is aside from sounding like chicken little and telling us the sky will fall unless they get a blank check in the amount of $700 billion... they have yet to really told the public in a cogent and clear fashion what they plan to DO with the money.

Simple fact: We got into this crisis because loans were made in large quantity without the proper oversight or the right questions being asked. Now congress is effectively saying doing the same thing will get us out of it. (?!)

I have a degree in Finance and a fair idea what practices got us here (no, they didnt get started by Bush... but he and our current congress DID miserably fail to fix the time bombs set in place by his predecessors) and I havent heard a no-BS explanation of what their real plan is in a vaguely cogent fashion. Hard to wonder that nobody is ready to just say "ok", here's a check that'll put my unborn grandchildren in hock, please spend it wisely.

The same assholes that failed to curb the problem are saying "trust us, we know what's best". NObody trusts them... regardless of which party they vote for. Congress is a den of thieves owned lock-stock-and-barrel by special interests, many of whom stand to have their butts bailed out.

Additionally our fine congressmen saw big numbers and lined up to enact gimmes for pet pork, one of the things both parties say they hate but is the lifeblood of each. They have no credibility, so if they want to remain in Washington as anything but tourists they either tell us what they want the money for or we take our damned chances without a "bailout". It aint complicated... we want answers and they dont offer them.

Have you seen anything resembling a detailed balance sheet of where they plan to spend $700 billion? I havent.

I would really rather that they have not proposed this in the first place and left it to the next administration. In hindsight, perhaps they should have quietly bailed out Lehmans. I don't think they seriously thought that the package may get rejected and they used the most threatening and worrying language available to push it through.

Now it is all but certain that they have talked the US and probably the rest of the world into a recession. To flex their muscles, the banks are going to cut their lending even more in order to put pressure on the administration for a bail out.

So far in this crisis, we have seen a series of bail outs and stimulus and I suppose that the credibility of US authorities have been stretched to the limits. This is a list of what they were

1. Massive and steep interest rates cuts
2. Pumpung massive liquidity into the markets
3. Economic stimulus package
4. Bail out of Bear Sterns
5. Bail out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
6. Bail out of AIG

The point is with these repeated bailouts is that you may get into a situation like Titanic. The whole ship floats for a while and then suddenly sinks violently. I really hope that we are not in this situation.

we have seen a series of bail outs and stimulus and I suppose that the credibility of US authorities have been stretched to the limits.

You cant stretch what isnt there.

Chairman Paulson had a rep from his alma mater, Goldman Sachs, present for the bailout discussion of AIG. Congress tried to tell us the "solution" was this package that they voted on today that had reportedly $20 billion dollars (that is a check with a shitload of zeros) in pork for pet projects of the left alone... but I'm sure the other side got theirs in too.

The whole damned thing stinks... there's no accountability. This country founded on a fight against taxation without representation can do the same damned thing again... revolt against those that do it and turn them outta Washington. We can do it with votes just like it was done with guns the other time. A random sampling of business school students could do better and might even try harder if their grade depended on it.

People are mad, and they dont want to cut any more blank checks so these bought and sold legislators can help the guys that feed their addiction to special interest money. We just dont believe them anymore.

We as a nation fund bizarre bullshit that no more belongs in the US Federal budget than the man in the moon. We could cut the studies to determine the mating habits of {insert whatever}, funds to refurbish opera houses and refit this or that, the foreign aid that goes to countries where they hate our guts, etc... You could eliminate untold billions that are not a function of our government mandate to start with.

As for Goldman Sachs and friends... let them fail. Thats capitalism. Our federal government was not intended to be used to "save firms". Find that role in the constitution and send me a note. Those that wanna have the government to fund their errors should move to a socialist country.

Agree with robjones.

Eliminate the pork, eliminate the billions we send to other countries in money and food-medical supplies, end the billions given to companies so they can sell overseas, and so much more.
Oh, and get rid of the NPO's and their tax status...stupid that our tax dollars support greenpeace, peta, and others.

I am thinking that all senators and the house have heard and will continue to hear a lot from the people about they had better not do this bailout.
Maybe this coming election will show Washington, the dems and reps that the people are getting sick of supporting them.

Originally Posted by robjones

The whole damned thing stinks... there's no accountability. This country founded on a fight against taxation without representation can do the same damned thing again... revolt against those that do it and turn them outta Washington. We can do it with votes just like it was done with guns the other time. A random sampling of business school students could do better and might even try harder if their grade depended on it.

As long as people continue to blindly support either the Republican or Democrat we are doomed to failure.

Why do you think I am refusing to do it anymore? Instead writing in someone, taking a stand. If enough people did some real 'change' to our roots could occur.

GRIM added 0 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by iowadawg

Agree with robjones.

Eliminate the pork, eliminate the billions we send to other countries in money and food-medical supplies, end the billions given to companies so they can sell overseas, and so much more.
Oh, and get rid of the NPO's and their tax status...stupid that our tax dollars support greenpeace, peta, and others.

I am thinking that all senators and the house have heard and will continue to hear a lot from the people about they had better not do this bailout.
Maybe this coming election will show Washington, the dems and reps that the people are getting sick of supporting them.

Unnecessary wars and defensive spending would be a great method of reducing our debt as well

Originally Posted by GRIM

Unnecessary wars and defensive spending would be a great method of reducing our debt as well

That would be a huge savings, considering what is spent on that line item.

I suppose the will of the people have prevailed this time, it is just nobody really knows what the full consequences are.

My parents have always taught us, the only thing in life that you should borrow for is a house, if you cant afford the car you want, tough, save up. Credit cards are for stupid people who try to live above there means.

Here in Aust apparently its going to really hurt our superannuation payouts

Originally Posted by Rhiannon

Credit cards are for stupid people who try to live above there means.

Credit cards if used properly are great. I make money every year on using credit cards, in the hundreds if not possibly thousands of dollars

Plus it improves my credit.

They've established this panic of america, therefore we have no choice now but to get some type of bailout bill through. Absolutely insane that Pelosi opened her mouth...yet again! These politicians started the "Its got to be done NOW" hysteria so they better get a new plan together.....preferably without earmarks on it! I mean come on, how ridiculous is that?!

Originally Posted by Kaos

They've established this panic of america, therefore we have no choice now but to get some type of bailout bill through. Absolutely insane that Pelosi opened her mouth...yet again! These politicians started the "Its got to be done NOW" hysteria so they better get a new plan together...

Bush was the biggest culprit there and he's back at the doom and gloom talk today...
CityNews: 'Painful And Lasting' Consequences If Bailout Plan Not Passed Promptly: Bush
Dude... Are you purposely trying to bankrupt the country?!?!?

Originally Posted by Kaos

..preferably without earmarks on it! I mean come on, how ridiculous is that?!

That's the same greed that created this mess, rearing it's ugly head once more.
It's a good thing you still have some politicians that listen to you.

Wouldn't it be nice if this year was the stunner of all stunners and Ron Paul actually got elected?

Originally Posted by Kaos

They've established this panic of america, therefore we have no choice now but to get some type of bailout bill through. Absolutely insane that Pelosi opened her mouth...yet again! These politicians started the "Its got to be done NOW" hysteria so they better get a new plan together.....preferably without earmarks on it! I mean come on, how ridiculous is that?!

Pelosi may have opened her mouth, that does not nor should it change what the Republican vote on and how. To blame Pelosi for the bill not passing for such a reason is simply childish at best by the Republicans.

It was childish of Pelosi to open her mouth and go on a rant.
Knowing full well she needed the support of the republicans.
And she did need, and still needs, the support of the republicans.
Simply because 40% of the democrats did not vote for the bill and from all indications will probably not go for another bill.

Remember, lot of members of congress are up for reelection in about 5 weeks.
And they are damned if they vote yet and damned if they vote no.
Vote yes, and they may not get reelected.
Vote no, and they get tarred and feathered by their respective parties.

So far today, the dow is up, but not really because the markets feel there will be a bailout.
There is more to the markets than a bailout possibility.

Plus the dollar is gaining good strength against the euro and other currencies at the present.

There really was too much rhetoric from our president, screaming the nation is done for if a bailout does not happen.
The idiot should of kept his mouth shut publicly and just went private with the leaders of congress, etc about a bailout.

You've got to be kidding me. Was Pelosi right in how she acted? Perhaps not, childish however falls right in the lap of the Republicans.

All they did was whine and cry because the big old mean Pelosi didnt' talk nice to them before the vote. WTF does what she said have anything at all to do with the way they vote? If they didn't want to vote for it then don't vote for it! To come out and say 'she was mean to us and made us cry' which is in essence what they did is simply sickening.

I supported the Republicans 100% on this issue to block it, until they came out like a bunch of cry babies and instead of saying 'we didn't like the bill so we voted no' went on a rant about how the big old meanie Pelosi make them cry like a bunch of little bitches so they took their ball and went home. Now if only they could find their real balls and simply say what really made them vote no instead of blaming the big old mean speaker.

Originally Posted by iowadawg

It was childish of Pelosi to open her mouth and go on a rant.
Knowing full well she needed the support of the republicans.
And she did need, and still needs, the support of the republicans.
Simply because 40% of the democrats did not vote for the bill and from all indications will probably not go for another bill.

Pelosi doesn't need those votes. Wall Street does.

Originally Posted by GRIM

I supported the Republicans 100% on this issue to block it, until they came out like a bunch of cry babies and instead of saying 'we didn't like the bill so we voted no' went on a rant about how the big old meanie Pelosi make them cry like a bunch of little bitches so they took their ball and went home. Now if only they could find their real balls and simply say what really made them vote no instead of blaming the big old mean speaker.

They basically put petty politics above the needs of the country.
Fire the whole lot of them on November 5th.

Originally Posted by GRIM

You've got to be kidding me. Was Pelosi right in how she acted? Perhaps not, childish however falls right in the lap of the Republicans.

All they did was whine and cry because the big old mean Pelosi didnt' talk nice to them before the vote. WTF does what she said have anything at all to do with the way they vote? If they didn't want to vote for it then don't vote for it! To come out and say 'she was mean to us and made us cry' which is in essence what they did is simply sickening.

I supported the Republicans 100% on this issue to block it, until they came out like a bunch of cry babies and instead of saying 'we didn't like the bill so we voted no' went on a rant about how the big old meanie Pelosi make them cry like a bunch of little bitches so they took their ball and went home. Now if only they could find their real balls and simply say what really made them vote no instead of blaming the big old mean speaker.

I merely mean that normal people, when trying to get people on their side...would not belittle the opposition right before a vote. It was just plain stupid for her to say anything, especially after Pelosi was part of the rah-rah of "We need this bill NOW" BS crowd.

Just watched world news tonight with Brian Williams, found it interesting how in recent days it has been fear tactics now tonight the news is all "We'll all be fine" type of reporting. So sick of all the media. Hopefully we can get rid of all these lazy, useless politicians next vote and maybe get rid of the useless media too!

the fact that the stockmarket didn't lose again today, and regained a good amount should be a sign that this bailout bill may not really be needed.

Lets just keep telling them its on the way and good things will continue to happen evidently

CityNews: Wednesday Vote For US Bailout

Tax cuts, funded by tax increases, contained within a bill designed to save the economy from doom?

Does it get any more bizzarre than that?

^exactly! How can they claim to be serious about passing this when they are adding freakin earmarks to this bill. Outrageous!

Seovb- I would think the market is responding more because they DO expect a package, but they won't be fooled all that long sadly.

That is just going to be the Senate version.
Which more than likely, since it is basically the house plan that got voted down with just two changes, the house will turn it down and recraft their own.

Still, the House is where the problems are, and leaders there were scrounging for ideas that might appeal to a few of the 133 Republicans and 95 Democrats who rejected the proposal on Monday.

Still looking at the markets, not just in the USA, but throughout the world, I do believe that to do nothing is still the best course of action.

The government can still do more than just a rescue plan (bailout is getting to be the wrong word and should not have been used, according to one senator).
Without spending much....

But of course, the administration, the house and the senate are just hell bent to spend 700 billion dollars.
Senate to vote on financial rescue Wednesday | Front page | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Originally Posted by grim

I supported the Republicans 100% on this issue to block it, until they came out like a bunch of cry babies and instead of saying 'we didn't like the bill so we voted no' went on a rant about how the big old meanie Pelosi make them cry like a bunch of little bitches so they took their ball and went home.

Does that mean you *don't* support them now because of what they said?

You realize that given your argument, that kinda trips the irony meter. Hopelessly circular.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but if your fly was open I'd tell you that too.

Originally Posted by robjones

Does that mean you *don't* support them now because of what they said?

You realize that given your argument, that kinda trips the irony meter. Hopelessly circular.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but if your fly was open I'd tell you that too.

It's not hard to comprehend. I still support them on the vote, I however do not vote on their cry baby antics after the vote. After the vote is still accompanied within the issue, it does not stop at just the vote.

Nothing 'circular' about it.

I forgot however one must support a side 100% in some peoples circles, even when that side is wrong you still should close your eyes and support them.



Sorry but I don't play that way. You might, you've proven you do, I however will not.

Originally Posted by grim

I forgot however one must support a side 100% in some peoples circles, even when that side is wrong you still should close your eyes and support them.

Sorry but I don't play that way. You might, you've proven you do, I however will not.

Watch it junior... that sounded a tad personal.

Try and maintain a sense of humor even when discussing politics. Saves on wear and tear. You happen to know I've made statements critical of Republicans, so disingenuous statements to the contrary don't work.

Originally Posted by robjones

Watch it junior... that sounded a tad personal.

Try and maintain a sense of humor even when discussing politics. Saves on wear and tear. You happen to know I've made statements critical of Republicans, so disingenuous statements to the contrary don't work.

Hmm considering you do the same to me all the time claiming I support Obama

Looks like Congress will keep voting on this until they get a bailout passed.

We have already had two housing bailouts this year. Most ppl don't even remember the $500 billion bailout last Feb where Pelosi pushed to raise the loan limit of Freddie/Fannie from $424,000 to $724,000 and the $300 billion bailout in June that included raising the loan limits with the FHA.

The FHA will need a bailout soon.

There is also another $1 trillion in bad mortgages that will need to be bailed out on top of the $700 billion bailout.

Where's the money going to come from?

Start up the printing presses and watch the dollar drop! [MENTAL]No worries, Mr. CEO, if you Need it, we print it[/MENTAL]

I suggest our house members just take a deep breath, sit down, and count to 700 billion.

By the time they're done the measure will have died for lack of votes.

Originally Posted by Bogart

Looks like Congress will keep voting on this until they get a bailout passed.

We have already had two housing bailouts this year. Most ppl don't even remember the $500 billion bailout last Feb where Pelosi pushed to raise the loan limit of Freddie/Fannie from $424,000 to $724,000 and the $300 billion bailout in June that included raising the loan limits with the FHA.

The FHA will need a bailout soon.

There is also another $1 trillion in bad mortgages that will need to be bailed out on top of the $700 billion bailout.

Where's the money going to come from?

You sort of answered your own question. Where's the money going to come from? Another bailout.
Actually, another two bailouts. I forget where, but I read that $700 billion is the maximum amount that can be asked for.
To cover $1 trillion, that'll be two more bailouts.

Plus the $30 billion giveaway to the auto industry that just past a few days ago.

Senate going to vote on their rescue plan today.
Try to force the House into accepting their version.

It looks like the $700 billion is going to be used to nationalize banks. The New York Times has reported that Treasury is planning to make direct cash infusions into banks in exchange for preferred shares rather than buying junk paper.

The 700 billion became 850 billion when it was finally passed....

Plus the government is pumping billions more that is not part of the bailout bill.

Latest figures I saw was we hit the trillion dollar mark and more on the way.

Originally Posted by Bogart

It looks like the $700 billion is going to be used to nationalize banks. The New York Times has reported that Treasury is planning to make direct cash infusions into banks in exchange for preferred shares rather than buying junk paper.

I think that would be a very effective use of that money!