Thread: Does religion change your vote?

Just curious what you all feel. Just read the story on Mitt Romney's Mormon speech as its being called by the press. Do you care about a candidates religion or does it effect your views on the candidate?

It seems to me that religion and politics are co-mingling alot more then they used to in the past and many have different views on if this is a good or bad thing.

*expecting a nicer discussion then would be found on OP*

It's hard not to mix religion and politics since most of our country (US) is part of some type of faith. People vote for what they believe in, and they vote for people that are the closest with what they believe.

It's true, people see religion as a definite factor in this upcoming presidential race. Obviously I am voting for Mitt, and not necessarily because I'm also LDS. I wasn't going to vote for him earlier this year but then I read a book about him from a 3rd party political analyst, and I learned about his positions on abortion, the war, and his business background turning around the SLC Olympics. I really admire him as a person and for a political candidate.

I'm not voting because I am Canadian. :3083:

I don't know who I would vote for if I could vote so I am kind of glad I can't vote. :3083:

I do think Mitt did a good job with the Olympics in SLC.

I will vote for the first one who admits to being a pagan aethist blood sucking witch.

Damn.....that means I got to vote for Billary!

Billary has so much for my state I can probably count them on one finger :twisted:

The Olympics made me live in Boise for a month because the place I rented in Utah was rented out to athletes LOL :P

I personally don't like how entangled religion has become in politics, it drives me crazy that it has to be a forefront for many politicians. I believe in the separation of church and state. I think alot of people try to focus on Mitt being LDS to give him a negative because its a less "accepted" mainstream religion (outside of Utah) only way I can think to put it. Also we have to here our current Prez always inflicting religion in his politics. It all drives me nuts, so I think I prefer those that stick to the subjects that really matter like the crazy state of our country. Be religious, thats fine but thats your personal life, not what I care about.

Yeah, I remember way the crap when, when JFK ran, how his religion (catholic) was brought up by a lot of the media, the other party (republicans) and others.
Who were all afraid he was just a front man for the pope and that if elected the new religion by law for the country would be catholicism.

Much in the same way Obama is getting pilloried in fear that if elected, muslims would take over and we would have to follow muslim laws, etc.

Don't even get me started on billary!

*Really glad I'm Canadian*

Religion doesn't play a role in our politics. There's no place for it.

The only way it effects my vote is if the candidate appears to set his policies via his religion and not the US constitution.

Such as Huckabee, no way I could vote for that man, one reason being he appears to use religion above all else.

Originally Posted by Zap

*Really glad I'm Canadian*

Religion doesn't play a role in our politics. There's no place for it.

No, just whether one is english or french.

Originally Posted by iowadawg

No, just whether one is english or french.

Really? You think so? Why?

This is an interesting conversation. I have to say, the recent 'mixing' on 'intermingling' of religion and politics is nothing new. It's just that people, who are of certain faiths, or aren't are more aware of it. You can date it back the founding of the country how religion played a role in politics. In those days any political candidate who didn't believe in God was ostracized. Now, we're doing the same thing for candidates who believe in God.

You can argue that there is more diversity, in terms of religious beliefs, but that in no way changes the fact that religion has always has a distinct role in politics. Canadians, nothing against you, you're country was not founded on the basis of religion like the U.S.

And, to answer the question, I do vote based on my religious beliefs which determine my value system. I will support a candidate, not for specific religious affiliation, but for the value system they support.

Originally Posted by chaka42

Canadians, nothing against you, you're country was not founded on the basis of religion like the U.S.

Nothing against us??? I would take that comment as, neither, an insult, nor a compliment.
(But, I'm very happy that religion isn't dominating our political landscape. That's kinda scary.)

Religion and Politics SHOULD NOT mix. But unfortunately they have been mixing more and more in the US.

Its incredibly dangerous!

Politicians have been pandering to the Christian evangelical groups in order to get votes. But this tactic has had an effect to re-enforce and strengthen religious ties into politics. A positive feedback loop.

If the trend continues the US will become a religious state, just like most states in the Middle East. Kiss freedom goodbye.

This Canadian says, GO BILLARY!

Originally Posted by axemedia

This Canadian says, GO BILLARY! Right back where you came from!

I finished your statement to make it correct.:3083:

Originally Posted by Zap

Nothing against us??? I would take that comment as, neither, an insult, nor a compliment.
(But, I'm very happy that religion isn't dominating our political landscape. That's kinda scary.)

It was neither ..

Originally Posted by iowadawg

I finished your statement to make it correct.:3083:

LOL!

We're just a tad liberal here in Canada. Well, far more than a tad. And I'll admit I'm about as liberal as they come. But how the hell did we elect Steven Harper to be our current leader :3077:

Going back to the founders of the USA, it was a belief in GOD, not a specific religion.

Now, we are after people based not on a belief in GOD, but in the particular religion of the person.

iowadawg added 1 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by axemedia

LOL!

We're just a tad liberal here in Canada. Well, far more than a tad. And I'll admit I'm about as liberal as they come. But how the hell did we elect Steven Harper to be our current leader :3077:

Did you vote for the opposition?
If not, then someone got a bonus by voting for him.

Same here in the US, it is an amazement how some of our elected officials keep getting elected time after time.

Originally Posted by axemedia

LOL!

We're just a tad liberal here in Canada. Well, far more than a tad. And I'll admit I'm about as liberal as they come. But how the hell did we elect Steven Harper to be our current leader :3077:

Come on, dude. It was high time for a change.
Weren't you just a little bit pissed off with the culture of entitlement surrounding the Liberals before the Conservatives squeezed out their current minority government?

Zap added 10 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by iowadawg

Going back to the founders of the USA, it was a belief in GOD, not a specific religion.

Christianity is a specific religion.

The US wasn't founded on a belief in Allah or Budda, was it?

This is why I love this place... we all can talk politics without putting everyone down :-)

Originally Posted by Kaos

This is why I love this place... we all can talk politics without putting everyone down :-)

And I can still get lost in the whole shuffle, safely.... :P

Speaking of politics, how's Parliament screwing up Canada these days? :sroll:

Christianity is in a larger sense a religion.
But within there is where you get all the "why is he a baptist" or "Mitt is LDS" and so forth.
So no one is yelling at the other, the media is not after a candidate for being a christian, but rather going after their particular church affiliation.

Just as within the muslim religion you have sunnies, shiites and so forth.


But I remember my dad and mom and their friends arguing about the elected officials and how the country was going to hell because of them.
So things have not changed in 50 years.

Originally Posted by Zap

Come on, dude. It was high time for a change.
Weren't you just a little bit pissed off with the culture of entitlement surrounding the Liberals before the Conservatives squeezed out their current minority government?

Yes, perhaps the Liberal party had gotten too powerful and maybe some change was needed for a bit. But I am certainly grateful that the Conservative party only got themselves a minority position. I even voted strategically for the NDP (and i cant stand the wishy washy NDP) because i knew that in my riding a vote for the Liberals would not have much effect.

As for the whole entitlement thingy, thats the nature of politics. Period. Its not like there are no backroom deals being made by the conservative party between politicians, lobby groups and big business. Sometimes thats what it takes to get things done. So be it.

Look at whats buzzing around Ottawa right now with the whole Karlheinz Schreiber/ Brian Malroney thing. Particularly the actions of Harper, Mackay and others all working hard to distance themselves from the whole mess.

axemedia added 38 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by iowadawg

Going back to the founders of the USA, it was a belief in GOD, not a specific religion.

Now, we are after people based not on a belief in GOD, but in the particular religion of the person.

The problem as I see is that there has been a shift from the whole "In God we Trust" as the founders of the USA had intended, as religion being a more general aspect of the country so as to allow for the diversity of belief systems while keeping some needed distance from church and state, to one where a specific set of religious beliefs is trying to wield power and directly influence government. Because of that you are also getting some backlash from those who either don't have the same beliefs or feel religion should not have as much influence as it does now. It's also leading to increased clashes between differing groups of Christian beliefs. Baptists vs. Mormon vs. Catholic vs. Protestant, etc.

These differences are becoming polarizing and escalate even farther. But its also a pendulum swing kind of thing. It escalates to a point till a majority are no longer liking what they see, then it will begin to swing the other way, till it too goes too far. Back and forth, back and forth.

I see this as a global social trend and we are at or near the peak of the cycle. Conservatism and religousity in governements around the world had been growing for years and led to the clashes we are seeing now between the west and the middle east. 911 and the war in Iraq, and the saber rattling between the US and Iran are all functions of the peak of this kind of sentiment.

Taking extreme actions such as the 911 attacks and the quagmire war in Iraq are knee jerk reactions. Effectively blowing off the pent up steam. Regardless of who "wins" it will then lead to a period were these kinds of sentiments, and the events they produce, will subside. Till the next cycle.

We are starting to see that change, i think. Australia just booted out their conservative government. Opting for one that will pull out of Iraq and follow a more environmental approach. The election in the US next year will certainly see a major shift in policies as Bush just royally fucked things up in so many ways and many of those who had been supporters, or simply support by default for a president while at a time of war, are now fed up and cant wait to see him gone. He's now simply a lame duck leader and coasting through his last days in office.

Canada is starting to gear up for an election. Hard to say yet if it will knock the Conservatives out of power, but they will certainly be stuck with a minority position again at the very best.

Europe though might be a different story as the nationalist anti-immigrant and racist sentiments have been growing there, big time. And Russia is moving backwards to a more centralist police state under Putin.

Asia is opening up big time as their markets explode, particularly with China no longer remaining a closed system and opening up trade channels globally.

Maybe, just maybe, the shift comes at a time when we need to focus more on our environmental impacts than on our religious differences. If its not already too late.

Originally Posted by axemedia

Canada is starting to gear up for an election. Hard to say yet if it will knock the Conservatives out of power, but they will certainly be stuck with a minority position again at the very best.

I wouldn't count those particular chickens just yet.
The Conservatives and Dion himself are doing a pretty good job at painting Dion to be completely inept.
Even staunch, lifetime Liberals are having a hard time trying to stomach him.

Where abouts do you live? It's funny. The Liberals didn't stand a chance of getting elected in your riding and in my riding, we haven't got much more than a hope in hell of getting anything but a Liberal.

If this business with Mulroney proves to be connected to current Conservative members, then so be it. But I'll be pretty pissed off if this is just a witch hunt to try to make some lame connection to today's government on my dollar. As I said, if someone in power today had something to do with it, then nail them to the wall. But I better not start hearing about an investigation into whether or not Harper was getting a blow job on Parliament Hill, while some old hag with an axe to grind appears with a blue dress with stains on it. We have better, more important things to do with our time and money.

In my case, No.
But people who don't have enough political education will consider religion.

Originally Posted by Zap

Where abouts do you live?

I'm in Kamloops. Interior of BC. Cowboy country. It's very conservative here.

The Liberals certainly don't have their act together yet to win an election just yet. But i still have doubts the Conservative party could win a majority. With environmental issues coming to the forefront these days it gives the NDP more clout. Not that they deserve enough clout to govern, but they play an important role as an opposition party.

Ideally this country performs best with a Liberal minority government, with the NDP and Conservative party having just enough seats to keep them in check. At least thats what I like to see. But then again I was very fond of that "little guy from Shewinigan".

To be honest, I would love to see an strong independent candidate that didn't focus so much of his/her attention on a particular party or sector. Just, this is how I think things should be run, like it or leave it.

I can't stand any of the candidates in this upcoming election, republican or democrat. I don't believe any are strong leaders. Quite the opposite, I'll say what I can to get votes. And people fall for that crap. Republicans and Democrats both.

I am not impressed by anyone either. People have tried to convince me for one candidate or another, unsuccessfully. Seems to be a trend with me though, I haven't been really happy with a national candidate in quite sometime. I want someone to focus on REAL issues, not all the fluff crap that really does not need so much attention. Our country has alot of real issues to deal with the war, economy, mortgage crisis that is impending its crazy that we are focusing on gay marriage and all this truly pointless stuff. There are alot bigger issues to deal with that are not personal feeling based IMHO

Originally Posted by Kaos

..Our country has alot of real issues to deal with the war, economy, mortgage crisis that is impending its crazy that we are focusing on gay marriage and all this truly pointless stuff. There are alot bigger issues to deal with that are not personal feeling based IMHO

Yea, there are bigger issues on the table ... but that's why they don't approach them firmly. There's so much controversy in the larger issues that it can have a greater impact on their election bids. That's all they're really worried about.

Honestly, I don't believe there's a mortgage crisis. There is, however, a sub-prime mortgage crisis. There's a huge distinction between sub-prime and conventional mortgages. And, some politician or the government can't and shouldn't try to fix it. It'll get fixed on it's own when consumers educate themselves about the home buying process and what's better for them financially. Sub-primes aren't to be blamed solely on the lenders, but the consumer who took the bait because they could get the house with the bay window and jacuzzi.

I'm not going to get into this much as I can get a bit heated in politics, not good for an admin

But 'in god we trust' was NOT apart of the original US, it was added after as much of the god references were.

This nation also was NOT founded on religion. It does have some basic items that one could call religious, many of the founding fathers however were not religious, and or knew the dangers of religion.

People came to this land to avoid religious persecution, a bit different than being founded upon it

GRIM added 8 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

BTW I am supporting RP as he is the best candidate IMO.
He goes directly to the constitution for EVERYTHING, he also does no pander to anyone.
Unlike all the phonies, he actually stands up for what he believes in, his record proves it

And the man has spoken ..

Are the smilies to help you not get heated :P

Originally Posted by Kaos

Are the smilies to help you not get heated :P

hehe, might be :slaugh:

I usually am ok, just when people lie over and over like on DP I get a bit p'd! :sshocked:

Originally Posted by GRIM

hehe, might be :slaugh:

I usually am ok, just when people lie over and over like on DP I get a bit p'd! :sshocked:

I dont even bother to read, let alone post, in the DP politics and religion Forums. Just full of idiots.

Politicians should have the right be be religious or not, as they please. That's the beauty of having freedom of religion--as long as the politician does not become a spokesman for his faith. I think Mitt did a great job explaining that in his speech. He's obviously religious and faithful, but he understands that he is not to be a spokesman for his faith (he's proven it by downplaying the "Mormon questions" throughout his campaign, and refusing to speak about particular doctrines).

I am a Mitt Romney supporter because of his tremendous business acumen, and successful political record in Massachusetts--where he achieved great success despite being a republican in a predominantly blue (democrat) state. Read up just a bit on his background and you'll find that he's a brilliant businessman (specializing in turnaround efforts), and very wise leader generally. Just what the U.S. needs right now IMO.

Originally Posted by GRIM

I'm not going to get into this much as I can get a bit heated in politics, not good for an admin

But 'in god we trust' was NOT apart of the original US, it was added after as much of the god references were.

This nation also was NOT founded on religion. It does have some basic items that one could call religious, many of the founding fathers however were not religious, and or knew the dangers of religion.

People came to this land to avoid religious persecution, a bit different than being founded upon it

GRIM added 8 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

BTW I am supporting RP as he is the best candidate IMO.
He goes directly to the constitution for EVERYTHING, he also does no pander to anyone.
Unlike all the phonies, he actually stands up for what he believes in, his record proves it

There you go, a few truths of our founding that are conveniently forgotten by a lot of religious fundamentalists.

If I remember right, In God We Trust was not added to our money until 1935????

Weird fact....the pilgrims did not land in Massachusetts to settle there.
They wanted to go further south.
But they were running out of beer and needed to stock up.

All true comments, but don't forget our Declaration of Independence ..

"..the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.."
"..that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.."
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.."

Originally Posted by axemedia

I'm in Kamloops. Interior of BC. Cowboy country. It's very conservative here.

Mississauga here. The whole of Southern Ontario is mostly red. There are pockets of blue, but mostly red

Originally Posted by axemedia

Ideally this country performs best with a Liberal minority government, with the NDP and Conservative party having just enough seats to keep them in check. At least thats what I like to see. But then again I was very fond of that "little guy from Shewinigan".

I actually prefer majority governments (even if it's not the one I voted for) most of the time, but I'm not "afraid" or "reluctant" to embrace a minority government now and again. I think, in the right circumstances, a minority government sends exactly the right message to all of our leaders and I think the election of this current minority government was perfect timing. We were sick of the pompous attitude of the Liberals, but not quite ready to write a blank cheque to the Conservatives either.

The thing I find interesting about politics is that almost all politicians use religion for their advantage when it suits them. You have to admit at least Mitt lives what he believes. You cannot say that for most politicians.

Also, if Republicans and Democrats would actually sit down and look at what they believe and what both Dems and Reps believe, they would see that they're really not that different. I remember taking some test that showed what type of political views you had, and most people that took the test we're right in the middle.

The problem in America is that most people are "politically stupid" (and
yes I'm going to trademark that). They only vote the way they do because their parents voted that way. There is a very small minority of people that actually sit down, look at the candidates, examine their history and how it aligns with what he/she believes. It would be nice if people would look beyond the crap and think for themselves.

Then you've got the "my vote doesn't mean anything" people who think that one little vote won't make a difference, but you have so many of those people that if they all got their fat @sses off the couch, it might actually change the outcome of an election.

Then there are the apathetic people who just don't care who the politicians are, or what they do. These are usually also the people who complain the most about things.

Anyway, as for me, coming from a Christian background leans me toward certain values which aren't necessarily the same as Mitt's, but that doesn't mean I have eliminated him. At this point I'm evaluating all the candidates (Dem's, Rep's and others) and when it comes down to the final election if there isn't one that I like I then vote for the person I think who will do the best job and the least damage.